I'm bracing myself for a lot of gross games. Still think they were in "let's try a bunch of stuff to see what we have" mode, but, uh, that was close. I want to see where they are after Purdue.
I think Chris Peterson is a great coach, but his last three years have been very similar to Franklin's - he just coaches in a weaker conference. He gets credit for Boise State on this list, but no mention of Vanderbilt for Franklin. I don't think Franklin is the third best coach in the country, I just think that's interesting.
There's a part of me that wants to be angry about this, but it's not worth it anymore. Chambers accomplishments are: actually recruiting good basketball players that can be fun to watch and dunk and stuff, and raising the floor (we don't get run out of the gym much if at all anymore). The NIT run was a lot of fun, but otherwise he hasn't accomplished anything noteworthy on the court in 8 years. It's frustrating that PSU seems to be ok with that. And it kills me that some other schools that have many of the same barriers can be more successful.
I would love to see real investment in the program, but we're stuck in this place where making that commitment may not pay off, and probably won't. We can build a new arena, get top notch facilities, way overpay for a coach and still might not jump out of the middle of the pack in the B1G. I'd be down with trying someone new but they're likely going to just as flawed as Chambers. So, I've accepted that this is who we are. A weird program that sometimes makes February and early March interesting, and gives us things like The Deveis Moment.
Go State. See you at the BJC next year. Well, probably not.
this program will stay right where it is unless a serious commitment to investing in the program is made by the athletic department
You laid out the obstacles very well, and make the case that PSU hoops is not worth the investment. Then you said this-so I'd be curious what that investment looks like to you?
Yeah not a fun season, but if 9-4 is the rebuild then I'm great with where things are. Franklin has a Close Game Thing and Blowing Fourth Quarter Leads Thing that are going to be things until they aren't, but more than anything he just needs to beat freaking inferior Michigan State teams. Think about what the last two seasons are if we win those games.
Interesting offseason ahead. There's been some good analysis of the difference in experience and pay of Penn State's assistants vs some of the CFB elites. I don't know what Franklin can do about that in one offseason short of firing most of the staff, getting the AD to agree to big pay bumps, and bringing in some of the best coaches out there. Changes at OL, WR, and special teams can be a start. Then hope for improvement from Rahne.
Come onnnnnnn. This was the least stressful win since Kent State and the comments are full of negativity.
I think that's all fair. Really the only loss from the last three years that I have a problem with is this year's MSU game. While the other losses had aspects that could allow for criticism of the coaches, they were at least against really good teams and/or on the road and/or involved a weird weather delay. That game was inexcusable. Thing is, we hold onto an INT this year and we're probably ranked around 12 right now with a path to a third straight NY6 bowl.
This was always going to be a rebuilding year, and the losses may have been for the best if they lead to positive changes. But right now the idea of looking beyond Franklin isn't on my radar.
I understand why beating UM/MSU/OSU is important from the practical standpoint of needing to beat them to win the division. I also agree that Franklin has made some mind numbing decisions this year. As an aside, it feels like he's made more boneheaded moves this year than in the last two seasons combined, which is odd to me. Wonder if Moorehead had an impact on timeouts, clock management, etc.
I also think college football programs get themselves into trouble when they make coaching decisions based on specific parameters like what you laid out above. The 3-12 against those teams will be harped upon until it changes, but the program from 2014 Week One to halftime of Minnesota 2016 is completely different from the program since that point. We're 3-5 against those teams in that span. Not great, but not as bad. Also not great to go 2-0, 1-2, 0-3 against those teams in that time. But if we had beaten MSU but lost to Iowa, do we view this season differently? I don't - it's still an 8-9 win rebuilding season. If 2019-20 are 10-2 seasons with both losses being to that triumvirate of teams and no road wins, do we really want to move on from Franklin? And, like you said, for who?
This is a good writeup Dan. Good summary of where things stand.
Franklin may see something in Rahne, but a program on the cusp of the elite in CFB shouldn't have a first time OC who's running someone else's offense. It's that latter part that especially bothers me. Having said that, there's always going to a chicken-egg thing with players and coaches. BOB was labeled an offensive genius but he had the greatest WR in PSU history and multiple NFL lineman. Same with Moorehead, but he had a generational RB, TE, and the program's all-time leading receiver. I don't think many people had a problem with Rahne's playcalling in the Fiesta Bowl with those same players. With Trace leaving, I think Franklin would be better off finding an experienced OC, but he's loyal to Rahne. This is going to be an interesting decision.
I think you're talking over your own head.
You really just have to make sure you're the most negative commenter, don't you?
Sure, but I don't that you can say that about yesterday. The D was fine was generally fine, but had to be on the field for 89 plays.
And for all of the crap Pry and the D have gotten about 4th quarter collapses, the offense has blown chances to put away all of those games and couldn't do it.
I don't put this one in the same category as the other 4 close losses. Ohio State and USC are/were great teams. Michigan State last year was pretty good, playing at home, with a 4 hour delay. Lewerke and the WRs played out of their minds. We could and probably should have won all of those, but they can at least be somewhat explained away.
Yesterday was just a trash effort from too many people. Michigan State isn't very good, and this shouldn't have been a close game in the 4th quarter. This wasn't a team we should be losing to a That's the worst we've played in over two years, maybe even back to 2015. Just atrocious on offense. First time I felt like we've taken a step back in a while. This season could really go haywire in the next four weeks.
Gotta see how this year plays but let's say we go 11-1 or 10-2 and play in a NY6 Bowl. We likely finish in the top 10. That's three years in a row of that and playing toe to toe with Ohio State. Couple that with the way we've recruited and we should continue that trend. Not quite elite I guess, but I've been a fan since 1998 and have been dying to be on that level. Right now I think we're definitely behind Bama, Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma, and probably Georgia (but even they only have one "elite" season). I think we're in the next group in back half of the top 10. Being in that top group would obviously be amazing, but I hope I don't get to a point where "just below elite" isn't acceptable.
From 2000 through week 5 of 2016 I would have been fretting a lot more about this one as an indictment of the state of the program, but back-to-back NY6 bowls and incredible recruiting have put those concerns at ease.
As far as this year, I saw eight games I expected us to win, and then another four (Mich/OSU/MSU/Wisc) that would define the year. I was thinking we'd lose to Ohio State (because they're still just better than us) and Michigan. I still see those other seven games as wins-we're just better than those teams. As far as the big 4: Ohio State is still probably a loss, Michigan State is after a bye and they struggled with Utah State, Michigan didn't impress, and the issues on D have me worried about Wisconsin but that's also like seven weeks away, including bye week so I'll wait and see.
I will say I'm a little more worried about Pitt. We've lost a road game to an inferior team every year of Franklin's tenure, mainly because the hardest thing to do in college football is win on the road. Wouldn't surprise me if our young, probably less confident defense, gets gashed. Still think the offense is too good to for them to keep up with, but can't say I feel great about having to face a team playing their Super Bowl for a second straight week.
You listed 7 possible losses then said 7-5 is a worst case.
Yeah, that seems right. I think every game is winnable but hard to expect that. I'll take 9-10 wins in a "rebuilding" year and then look out 2019 and beyond.
Well, the guy before Trace.
So it's not out of the question that he throws #69 for the game winner over Ohio State?
You, the person who in 2018 is still wringing their hands over the thing you wanted to happen in 2014 happening instead in 2015, telling me to give it up is.....something.
And yes, we dressed 40-something players for games in 2014:
You're ignoring basically everything. O'Brien won 7 games in 2013 with the best WR in Penn State history plus multiple NFL offensive lineman. But, sure he would have won 10 the next year after losing them, plus an even more depleted scholarship situation.
And .500 is an incredible batting average. Work on your metaphors.
This is even worse than your above comment. "People forget". People must have forgotten that we had 40-something scholarship players suiting up for some games in 2014. Also-FRANKLIN FIRED THAT OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR.